Over the past several years, I keep hearing about how Intel is struggling in the market now. Since 2020 or so, it seems AMD has had a steady advantage with their processors over Intel. I remember seeing some benchmarks in 2020 showing AMD's flagship desktop processor was beating Intel's flagship desktop processor in many areas. Not to say Intel is making bad stuff, but it seems AMD has been fairly steadily popular with a lot of PC builders for several years.

I worked at Intel from 2011 to the end of 2019, and while I was there, I started to hear about Intel's chip manufacturing struggling and falling behind around 2018-2019 or so. TSMC's chip manufacturing process had surpassed Intel's, allowing AMD and other chip makers to make smaller transistors for their chips, and Intel struggled with that. Although Intel has tended to manufacture its own chips, I've heard Intel has now outsourced some of their chips to TSMC to make use of their process technology.

Also, while I was at Intel, I saw some changes in leadership at some fairly high levels. A couple of business group leaders left for other companies. The CEO also changed when I was there. Brian Krzanich was the CEO when I started, but eventually he was kicked out due to a supposed relationship with a subordinate - but I heard from others that people were unhappy with his leadership, as he was supposedly expected to help boost Intel's manufacturing, as Brian Krzanich was an engineer before becoming CEO. They had an interim CEO (Bob Swan) for a little while (who was in accounting) who eventually decided to become permanent CEO, but he didn't last long. They then brought in Pat Gelsinger, who was there for just a few years before resigning in 2024 (his plan to turn Intel around was apparently not working well enough).

At any rate, I've heard a lot of news about Intel recently that makes it sound like they're just not doing very well. For a while now, I've had a feeling they've had bad management, and sometimes it seems like Intel doesn't know where they want to go. Like many tech companies, they've had a lot of layoffs as they ramp up projects and then decide to cancel them, buy other companies & sell them, etc..

As Intel has been a behemoth in the computer industry for so long, it feels a bit surreal to me to see them seemingly fading away, particularly since I worked there for about 8 years..

Nightfox

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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 06 2025 09:54 pm

resigning in 2024 (his plan to turn Intel around was apparently not working well enough).

At any rate, I've heard a lot of news about Intel recently that makes it sound like they're just not doing very well. For a while now, I've had a feeling they've had bad management, and sometimes it seems like Intel

It's always the management to blame. The companies have all the resources on an equal plane. but the managemant will destroy the company. Alot of Peter Principle in all companies. Here, let me hire my brother in law to fill this position. I know he doesn't know what he's doing, but I don't make bad decisions, so it must be something else.....

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Nightfox wrote to All <=-

Over the past several years, I keep hearing about how Intel is
struggling in the market now. Since 2020 or so, it seems AMD has had a steady advantage with their processors over Intel.

Note: I've never had an AMD chip, ever. I'm sure there are others that
way. I've just recently started buying high-end laptops with Ryzen
CPUs, I suppose I should try. There are some amazing older chips out
there with lots of cores that I keep hearing about for homelabs...

before becoming CEO. They had an interim CEO (Bob Swan) for a little while (who was in accounting) who eventually decided to become
permanent CEO, but he didn't last long.

I worked with Bob at eBay, he was an incredibly smart man and
personable. Not sure why he wouldn't have stayed longer, but sounds
like they wanted someone with more industry experience. I think he was
also getting ready to semi-retire.

As Intel has been a behemoth in the computer industry for so long, it feels a bit surreal to me to see them seemingly fading away,
particularly since I worked there for about 8 years..

Yeah, for a company to have built the foundation of desktop computing
to not be there anymore would be strange indeed.



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Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed May 07 2025 07:41 am

Note: I've never had an AMD chip, ever. I'm sure there are others that way. I've just recently started buying high-end laptops with Ryzen CPUs, I suppose I should try. There are some amazing older chips out there with lots of cores that I keep hearing about for homelabs...

I used AMD CPUs exclusively from about 1994 to 2011. AMD CPUs always performed well enough for me, and I always thought they were pretty good for the money. 2011 is when I started working at Intel, and they had an employee discount where you could buy Intel CPUs for up to about 50% of their retail price.

My main desktop PC at home is one I built in 2019, just before I left Intel. At the time, Intel was struggling, and the CPU I wanted was out of stock in Intel's employee discount program. After waiting about 6 months, I decided to just buy one from Amazon at the reatil price.

before becoming CEO. They had an interim CEO (Bob Swan) for a little
while (who was in accounting) who eventually decided to become permanent
CEO, but he didn't last long.

I worked with Bob at eBay, he was an incredibly smart man and personable. Not sure why he wouldn't have stayed longer, but sounds like they wanted someone with more industry experience. I think he was also getting ready to semi-retire.

When I was at Intel, I often watched the business update meetings presented by the CEO. When Rob Swan was the interim CEO, initially he said it wasn't his intention to be CEO permanently (maybe he just liked being an accountant); then he accepted the CEO position. I'm not sure what changed his mind.

Nightfox

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Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

@MSGID: <681B9736.74519.dove_dove-gen@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
@REPLY: <681B7107.1208.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox
on Wed May 07 2025 07:41 am

Note: I've never had an AMD chip, ever. I'm sure there are others that way. I've just recently started buying high-end laptops with Ryzen CPUs, I suppose I should try. There are some amazing older chips out there with lots of cores that I keep hearing about for homelabs...

I used AMD CPUs exclusively from about 1994 to 2011. AMD CPUs always performed well enough for me, and I always thought they were pretty
good for the money. 2011 is when I started working at Intel, and they
had an employee discount where you could buy Intel CPUs for up to about 50% of their retail price.

My main desktop PC at home is one I built in 2019, just before I left Intel. At the time, Intel was struggling, and the CPU I wanted was out
of stock in Intel's employee discount program. After waiting about 6 months, I decided to just buy one from Amazon at the reatil price.

before becoming CEO. They had an interim CEO (Bob Swan) for a little
while (who was in accounting) who eventually decided to become permanent
CEO, but he didn't last long.

I worked with Bob at eBay, he was an incredibly smart man and personable. Not sure why he wouldn't have stayed longer, but sounds like they wanted someone with more industry experience. I think he was also getting ready to semi-retire.

When I was at Intel, I often watched the business update meetings presented by the CEO. When Rob Swan was the interim CEO, initially he said it wasn't his intention to be CEO permanently (maybe he just liked being an accountant); then he accepted the CEO position. I'm not sure
what changed his mind.

AMD user here as well. Been using AMD since start of 1997 and any
computer I've built since then has been AMD. I do have intel chips,
from laptops and from "vintage computers" I've bought.

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Quoting Boraxman to Nightfox <=-

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Note: I've never had an AMD chip, ever. I'm sure there are others that way. I've just recently started buying high-end laptops with Ryzen CPUs, I suppose I should try. There are some amazing older chips out there with lots of cores that I keep hearing about for homelabs...

I used AMD CPUs exclusively from about 1994 to 2011. AMD CPUs always performed well enough for me, and I always thought they were pretty
good for the money. 2011 is when I started working at Intel, and they
had an employee discount where you could buy Intel CPUs for up to about 50% of their retail price.

AMD user here as well. Been using AMD since start of 1997 and any computer I've built since then has been AMD. I do have intel chips,
from laptops and from "vintage computers" I've bought.

I used to build my own gaming systems in the 80's and 90's. I tried
some Intel competitors at the time. Cyrix was one of them, but their
performance always seemed to be lacking in comparison the Intel
offerings.

I did also build some systems with AMD cpu's and most of them were
solid performers but were just a jump behind the speed and response of
the Intels. Since they weren't as expensive, they were a great choice.
The only real issues I had with them was that when playing intensive
games - they got extremely hot. If you were able to cool them
efficiently this wasn't normally a problem. However I did have
overheating problems with them as I tried to cool them the same way I
did the Intel builds.

The link is a Tom's hardware display where they removed the cooling
while playing a 3d shooter and what happened to the Intel and AMD
cpu's. I know, I know - they did it on purpose, but this just
demonstrates how hot the AMD's (at the time) ran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYQSHXNFvUk

After having some overheating issues, I stopped using them. I also
realize this was a long time ago and AMD has solved any of these issues
(I think).

Cougar

... Diplomacy: the Vaseline of political intercourse.

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Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, n
By: Cougar428 to BORAXMAN on Fri May 09 2025 09:23 am

I used to build my own gaming systems in the 80's and 90's. I tried
some Intel competitors at the time. Cyrix was one of them, but their
performance always seemed to be lacking in comparison the Intel
offerings.

I did also build some systems with AMD cpu's and most of them were
solid performers but were just a jump behind the speed and response of
the Intels. Since they weren't as expensive, they were a great choice.
The only real issues I had with them was that when playing intensive
games - they got extremely hot. If you were able to cool them
efficiently this wasn't normally a problem. However I did have
overheating problems with them as I tried to cool them the same way I
did the Intel builds.

The link is a Tom's hardware display where they removed the cooling
while playing a 3d shooter and what happened to the Intel and AMD
cpu's. I know, I know - they did it on purpose, but this just
demonstrates how hot the AMD's (at the time) ran.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYQSHXNFvUk

After having some overheating issues, I stopped using them. I also
realize this was a long time ago and AMD has solved any of these issues
(I think).

I was always under the impression that AMD was faster, because they were able to make some instructions execute in fewer cycles, whereas Intel went for speed, as speed was more marketable.

Don't recall ever seeing any overeating issues, and I live in a climate which can get quite hot in summer. In the end, I didn't buy AMD to save a lot of money, but to be able to buy a higher range CPU. There that, and brand loyalty.

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Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, n
By: Boraxman to Cougar428 on Sat May 10 2025 10:40:14

Don't recall ever seeing any overeating
issues...

You just weren't feeding it enough data. :)
"More input, Steph-enie!"

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Boraxman wrote to Cougar428 <=-

I was always under the impression that AMD was faster, because they
were able to make some instructions execute in fewer cycles, whereas
Intel went for speed, as speed was more marketable.

I remember someting to that effect as well...

I also remember when I read the difference between RISC and CISC and
how processes were done. Opened my eyes to more than just 'a chip.'




... Bears beat Battlestar Gallactica
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Quoting Mortar to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, n
By: Boraxman to Cougar428 on Sat May 10 2025 10:40:14

Don't recall ever seeing any overeating
issues...

You just weren't feeding it enough data. :)
"More input, Steph-enie!"

Whenever my AMD would heat up, I would have Hudson run a bypass.

Stay frosty!

... What was the best thing before sliced bread?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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Re: BURP!
By: Cougar428 to MORTAR on Sun May 11 2025 21:35:56

Whenever my AMD would heat up, I would have
Hudson run a bypass.

"It's the only way to be sure."

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Cougar428 wrote to MORTAR <=-

@MSGID: <6821507C.33366.dove-general@cjsplace.thruhere.net>
@REPLY: <6820DC80.36292.dove-general@endofthelinebbs.com>

Quoting Mortar to Boraxman <=-

Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, n
By: Boraxman to Cougar428 on Sat May 10 2025 10:40:14

Don't recall ever seeing any overeating
issues...

You just weren't feeding it enough data. :)
"More input, Steph-enie!"

Whenever my AMD would heat up, I would have Hudson run a bypass.

Stay frosty!

You could solve many problems with a bypass!



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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 06 2025 09:54 pm

Not to say Intel is making bad stuff, but
it seems AMD has been fairly steadily popular with a lot of PC builders for several years.

Intel has actually been making bad stuff for a while, unless you don't consider CPUs that fry themselves on their own "bad". I think it is 13th and 14th generation, which is two generations of botched chips.


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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Wed May 14 2025 07:50 am

Not to say Intel is making bad stuff, but it seems AMD has been fairly
steadily popular with a lot of PC builders for several years.

Intel has actually been making bad stuff for a while, unless you don't consider CPUs that fry themselves on their own "bad". I think it is 13th and 14th generation, which is two generations of botched chips.

I've heard about that. It's another sign that Intel overall isn't doing very well right now..

Nightfox

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Quoting Arelor to Nightfox <=-

Re: Intel: Once mighty, now falling?
By: Nightfox to All on Tue May 06 2025 09:54 pm

Not to say Intel is making bad stuff, but
it seems AMD has been fairly steadily popular with a lot of PC builders for several years.

Intel has actually been making bad stuff for a while, unless you don't consider CPUs that fry themselves on their own "bad". I think it is
13th and 14th generation, which is two generations of botched chips.

It wasn't actually bad hardware.

Primarily the 13th and 14th generation CPU's using the Raptor Lake
platform, and the issues were software related not actual hardware
issues. The problem stemmed from a microcode algorithm that caused
elevated operating voltages leading to CPU degradation and crashes.
Once they patched the code the problems went away.

Older AMD CPU's actually did have hardware issues causing them to
operate so hot that they would catch on fire and also fry the mobo.
Note that I said 'older'.

... If a cow doesn't produce any milk is it a Milk Dud or an udder failure

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: Cougar428 to ARELOR on Thu May 15 2025 02:19 pm

Older AMD CPU's actually did have hardware issues causing them to operate so hot that they would catch on fire and also fry the mobo. Note that I said 'older'.

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm reading this.

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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Cougar428 <=-

Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: Cougar428 to ARELOR on Thu May 15 2025 02:19 pm

Older AMD CPU's actually did have hardware issues causing them to operate so hot that they would catch on fire and also fry the mobo. Note that I said 'older'.

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm
reading this.

I re-watched that a couple of years ago or so. Had forgotten how good
it was, great stuff!



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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Cougar428 on Thu May 15 2025 06:30 pm

Older AMD CPU's actually did have hardware issues causing them to operate
so hot that they would catch on fire and also fry the mobo. Note that I
said 'older'.

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm reading this.

Such a great show.

Dang it, now I want to re-watch it.

|15 � � � codefenix � � � ConstructiveChaos BBS � � � � �
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Re: Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: Gamgee to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu May 15 2025 10:12 pm

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm
reading this.

I re-watched that a couple of years ago or so. Had forgotten how good it was, great stuff!

I keep thinking I should keep watching that. I watched the first episode years ago and for some reason didn't continue watching it.

Nightfox

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Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm
reading this.

I keep thinking I should keep watching that. I watched the first episode year
ago and for some reason didn't continue watching it.

IMHO, it is one of those shows you have to watch a few episodes of before
you really get into it. I think I almost quit after the first episode,
too, until I started noticing parallels with real-life IT events that were happening in that same time frame. Then it got more interesting.


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Hello Codefenix,

16 May 25 10:41, you wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Cougar428 on Thu May 15 2025 06:30 pm

Older AMD CPU's actually did have hardware issues causing them to
operate so hot that they would catch on fire and also fry the
mobo. Note that I said 'older'.

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while
I'm reading this.

Such a great show.

Dang it, now I want to re-watch it.

+1

luckily i have it on my plex!

ByEbYe
--
Daniel

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: Codefenix to poindexter FORTRAN on Fri May 16 2025 10:41 am

Such a great show.

Halt and Catch Fire was "just ok". I
wouldn't call it great. It's just that
there wasn't anything better with the
same subject matter. Same with that Mr.
Robot show. So many forced instances of
buzz words and computer jargon. It was
just OK.

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Codefenix wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Funny coincidence. I'm re-watching "Halt and Catch Fire" while I'm reading this.

Such a great show.

Dang it, now I want to re-watch it.

That show always makes me think "what if?"

I was working and living in San Francisco and Berkeley at the time,
first in gaming and utilities and later in multimedia authoring. San
Francisco felt like the place to be, with tech, culture, food, night
life and a history. I'd heard of Netscape, even toured their offices
when I was building out server rooms and cable plants - our vendor
wanted to show off their work. I knew they were doing something
exciting, but I was living in San Francisco, and who'd want to work in
Mountain View?





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Dumas Walker wrote to NIGHTFOX <=-

IMHO, it is one of those shows you have to watch a few episodes of
before you really get into it. I think I almost quit after the first episode, too, until I started noticing parallels with real-life IT
events that were happening in that same time frame. Then it got more interesting.

After 4 seasons, they'd done a lot of character building across the
board, and with the time jumps between seasons, you really feel like
there's a lot of history between them all. Well done.

I'd like to see a season 5 with a time jump to now, but it might be anticlimactic. I really just want to know they ended up alright.




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Re: Intel: Once mighty, now f
By: Cougar428 to ARELOR on Thu May 15 2025 02:19 pm

It wasn't actually bad hardware.

Primarily the 13th and 14th generation CPU's using the Raptor Lake
platform, and the issues were software related not actual hardware
issues. The problem stemmed from a microcode algorithm that caused
elevated operating voltages leading to CPU degradation and crashes.
Once they patched the code the problems went away.

That is semantics.

If a regular consumer bought a PolyStation 23 and it caught fire during a normal operation, the regular consumer would think it is a hardware problem, even if it was caused by some BIOS bug. Low level software, firmware and the like are so tightly tied to the hardware that you may as well say it is an integral part of the hardware appliance you bought (and got toasted).

While technically correct, saying it is not a hardware problem and that it can be fixed by patching comes across as telling people they can fix a motherboard issue by unsoldering some EPROM and soldering an updated replacement, and therefore their motherboard is perfectly fine and faultless.

I don't buy it. We are already giving the IT industry too much leeway to produce crappy products. Let them own their failures.


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